mistress gemma li: femme fatale of your dreams

I photographed Mistress Gemma Li in Brooklyn a few months ago when she reached out to me to connect for a photo shoot on a tour to New York. Scroll down to read our conversation about how she got into the industry and what it’s like to be a powerful woman who creates your own life. You can read more about Mistress Gemma on her website and see more of her impeccable fashion on her twitter and instagram.

Leo Brooklyn: You graduated from UCLA with a degree in psychology and I know you were especially drawn to the topics of human sexuality and intimate relationships. What made you want to study that and what were your initial career plans?

Mistress Gemmi Li: I actually changed my  major a few times. At first I got accepted in the business and e comm department and I tried that briefly but it didn’t feel right. I love connecting with people. I’m always fascinated about understanding the way people operate, how they move in this world. When I chose to focus on psychology it just came naturally to me. I think it gave me a lot of broad skills that I could apply to many areas of my life.

Before I started domming I was working in tech. A friend and I started a tech recruiting business. It gave me a lot of great experiences learning to understand my clients in the businesses we supported and the startups and executives we supported directly. After a while I moved away from that and I went in house to help lead the initiatives for people operations at some startups. Eventually I wasn’t happy working in tech and I felt depressed. I was unhappy and unfulfilled so I quit without knowing what I would do next.

I was hanging out with one of my partners and they said, “Have you ever thought of becoming a dominatrix?” And I laughed because I thought how would I tell anyone what my job was? It sounded absurd. But the seed was planted and I couldn’t stop thinking about it.

Leo Brooklyn:  What were your first steps to make it a reality? 

Mistress Gemmi Li: I checked out a bunch of websites of pro-dommes and I read about them and I chose a few who I resonated with. I reached out to them for advice. They were very helpful and honest with me about the challenges I would have to deal with. Eventually I decided I really wanted to do this. I took a course through the Evolutionary Dominatrix Academy for 6 months. This mentorship taught me how to understand submissives and their mindset and the psychology behind the dom/sub dynamic.  I was able to gather other technical skills from colleagues and by taking more classes.

Leo Brooklyn: Can you give some examples of the other skills?

Mistress Gemma Li: I learned suspension with Domina Rae. A long term personal sub of mine and I went to meet her and she taught me that. I learned how to use needles at Dom Con from Miss Aine Patrick. At first I didn’t think I would be interested in needles but I was playing with this dom and her sub really loved blood. And it was very intense but I realized I actually loved it.

Leo Brooklyn: What are some of the most popular activities that your subs want?

Mistress Gemma Li: My best subs come to me because they are interested in the psychological component that I give. I’m not so hung up on the particular activity and a lot of times one meeting with with a sub can be very different in tone, speed, and activities to the next meeting. I try to allow for us to attune to the flow of the moment and not to prescribe to a particular rubric. But I do get a good array of subs. I personally love heavy bondage and sensory deprivation. I get a lot of newbies- people who have been interested but have never experienced it before. I have noticed a lot of younger subs who are in their 20’s want feminization. It is really heartwarming and beautiful to see my subs wanting to embrace and explore the opposite gender. I think it’s so sweet and they’re just so cute. A lot of my young military clients love feminization. I think it’s the polar opposite to the very masculine and macho dynamic of military culture. So for them to embrace that really touches a soft spot in my heart. Not sure the reason for this, but sometimes there seems to be a seasonality to subs wanting a particular thing. For example, sometimes I get a lot of service subs at once. Sometimes I get a lot of masochists. And then sometimes I get a lot of people who are into humiliation and degradation. I would say I am fortunate because I attract a lot of submissives that are truly about the power exchange and less focused on particular activity needs which is my preference.

Leo Brooklyn:  Something that fascinates me about pro-dommes is that you’re doing full time work in the realm of fantasy. What is it like to build a career out of a fantasy world?

Mistress Gemmi Li: It’s my passion and I’m truly grateful to do it. I'm able to make a living and eat, breathe, and sleep this. Some days I’m tired and it feels like work but most often after a session I feel like - wow - I really needed that. Some sessions are very intense and draining and I need to settle my mind and body afterwards and just veg out for a few hours. I am going through the rush that I’m giving them.

As far as working in the fantasy realm I would say that the most fulfilling dynamics are ongoing and consistent. I like when I get to know someone and understand what truly makes them tick and understand them outside of our time together. And I’m able to have a power exchange in ways that extend beyond the play space and for me that’s not fantasy- that’s real. If I’m always giving them their exact fantasies it’s not a real power exchange. Now yes, it is a service that they’re paying for. But they are paying me because they are worshiping me. They are choosing to surrender. In return I will guide them and I will choose what is the best fit for them. Part of leading is having their best interest in mind. So of course I’m going to hear them and try to understand them. But that doesn’t mean I’m not truly just doing what I want in the end.

Mistress Gemma Li: It’s not a replacement for therapy but the space can be very therapeutic. With my clients I like to inquire about what parts of themselves they're hiding. What are they ashamed of? I think it’s a big arena for self exploration. And I’m there to guide that. I point out what I’m observing.

Leo Brooklyn: What do you like about your favorite clients?

Mistress Gemma Li: I really like my clients who are dominant in other areas of their lives. My best clients tend to be at the forefront of their industry. They’re  executives and entrepreneurs. I really like entrepreneurs because they are very creative. The immersion of both of our creativities can be really mentally stimulating. Business owners who are more dominant in their daily lives choose to surrender to me and they’re turned on by giving me their power to play with. My most meaningful dynamics with clients are when they feel safe enough to share their insecurities with me. They share parts of themselves they don’t show anyone else and they tell me things they’ve never told anyone. I make them feel seen, cared for and I don’t judge them.

Leo Brooklyn: That’s beautiful. Have you had any experiences as a pro-domme that have changed how you see the world?

Mistress Gemma Li: That’s a very good question. It has given me more self agency over how I want my world to be. I am more cognizant of the constant power exchanges that occur between people subconsciously. We’re constantly making bids to each other and manipulating each other. It’s not necessarily bad manipulation. But that’s just the way we operate.

Leo Brooklyn: Yes and I think in the world of heteronormative dating and relationships there can be much less clear communication. It’s like this weird dance everyone is doing without clear definitions or awareness. Whereas when it comes to sex work there’s a much more direct approach with what the relationship is.

Mistress Gemma Li: It’s fun for me to be able to see that a lot of people are kinky but they don’t have the vocabulary or self awareness to understand it. Also I feel the definition of vanilla is completely wrong. Why do we have to separate our desires?

Leo Brooklyn: We should be able to appreciate and respect our desires but society teaches us not to. People are afraid of their desires and women who embrace their desires are a threat in conventional spaces. Something I love about the sex workers I’ve been meeting is their ability to exist outside of society’s box and once you’re there you’re a fascinating person to me.

How do you navigate the social stigma surrounding your work? I’m sure you don’t have the mental energy to explain your work all the time when someone asks you what you do.

Mistress Gemma Li: I’m fortunate that I don’t have to hide it from my close friends and community. I recently told my parents what I did and that was huge. But I don’t move very much in circles that don’t accept what I do. But when I do get asked the question sometimes I redirect the conversation and ask them questions. People love talking about themselves. Or I’ll talk about my previous work in startup tech.

Leo Brooklyn: How do you prioritize self care and mental health and create peace in your life?

Mistress Gemma Li: That’s a constant struggle. I know that this is not a transient career path for me. It will be a part of my life forever. Even if I choose to slow down with marketing it in the future, I will always be a domme. I find it important for myself to take time to do nothing, to be bored so I can reflect, give gratitude, and get perspective. It’s important to me to assess if my life is still heading in the direction towards my ultimate desires. If not, I ask myself - what have I learned and what do I want to shift? Often it’s also a time when I get inspiration for what I might want to do next. I find peace when I align my outter world with my inner world. So sometimes I hustle and work really hard and sometimes I slow down and take time off. When I travel for work I always make sure to take time to visit friends or go to events or do something nourishing for myself. I’ve chosen this path because I don’t want a delineation between who I am and my career. I had to do that in the corporate world. I bring a lot of vulnerability to my work- just as much as my submissives do.

Leo Brooklyn: Do you have any aftercare rituals with your clients? Do you think that's important?

Mistress Gemma Li: I do think it's important.  I think it's part of the responsibility of bringing someone so deep into vulnerability. You can’t just do surgery on someone and then decide you’re not going to close up the wound. I ask them when I speak to them before meeting what they need in terms of aftercare. I often have my subs help me clean up. Some want a little bit of touch and chatting after the session. And some just want to lay there in silence and absorb the afterglow of everything.

Leo Brooklyn:  Can you share about your experience with power dynamics during a session? How do you establish your power?

Mistress Gemma Li: I do that in my screening process. I make it clear to them that they are there to please me and I’m in charge. They are naturally submissive and obedient. We both know what we want. Within a session I have protocols of how they should prepare. I have my rules and if they don’t follow them then I will discipline them accordingly. Within a session if I feel they’re not following my lead then I will call them out. I remind them that they came to serve me and surrender to me.  If their exchange with me is focused on what they are trying to get out of the session I will remind them I’m in charge. I might say, when you act this way it shows that you just want me to get you off. You have to trust me in guiding you. And I’ll say- do you trust me? And a true sub unequivocally says yes. So I put them in their place.

These are just random examples but, of course, there are nuances to the actual exchange during that particular context and time. Ultimately, establishing power is through establishing trust.

Leo Brooklyn: I love how you own your power. I’m so inspired. I admire how you’ve curated your persona. Where do you find inspiration for your impeccable fashion?

Mistress Gemma Li: I wear what makes me feel powerful, confident and sexy. I like to feel like a queen.